Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Spankings involving superheroes and superheroines, non-superhero comic-book stuff, comic strips, jungle girls, Lara Croft, Vampirella, Elvira, etc. Chross' board already has an excellent thread on this, but we love this subject so much we figure it deserves its own forum here anyway.
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Re: Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Post by web-ed »

I actually did address this issue earlier this year, in my essay "What Happened to DC Spankings During the Bronze Age?" in which I discussed how DC's retreat into darkness resulted in no M/F spankings during this period and allowed Marvel to eclipse them in this category for the first time. Also, I recently commented on Butch's post on this subject over at the Spanking Panels Forum, where I made the same point as Dan regarding the destructive effects of political correctness upon our culture. Here is a portion of what I wrote there:
...A combination of political correctness among the writers (perhaps a consequence of hiring writers from television as Brats suggests, since P.C. rules in TV land) and corporate timidity among editors and publishers makes it unlikely we're going to see an honest-to-goodness spanking in a mainstream book anytime soon. Alternatives might be a possibility, but to be honest, I haven't been an active comics buyer now for about 15 years so I don't really know the comics landscape any more.

From what I can tell, DC seems committed to wallowing in evil, Marvel to trading on the past as long as there's money in bringing these now 50-year-old characters to the screen, and as for the rest I'm not sure. Last week I picked up a Marvel book on the Avengers origins of the Scarlet Witch (an excellent candidate for a spanking, by the way) and Quicksilver - not exactly breaking new ground there. I also got an Image title called The Last of the Greats but I'm still not sure what it's about. I do know of a superhero satire series where the storyline contained a spanking reference and two actual spankings of a Wonder Woman-like superheroine who craves this treatment, but it hasn't been published - perhaps it will be the future if we're lucky. And again, one of the alternative publishers could always come through for us as they did in the past with books like Legends of the Stargrazers and Femforce. Let's all hope!
Political correctness is a serious disease, a specimen of the old "argument from intimidation" technique, and it is devastating the U.S. and Western Europe. At least Mexico and Latin America don't seem to have any problem with spankings in comics or on T.V., but because they are poor countries they don't produce a lot of comics or T.V. shows, and we probably wouldn't see them here anyway.
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Re: Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Post by Tanner »

While I agree that the present-day atmosphere of political correctness is hostile toward spanking in comics,etc I think it goes back farther than that.
The womens movement began in the late 60s/early 70s. However its thinking at that time was far out of the mainstream of society. It was seen as part of the counterculture and was often ridiculed as those" crazy women's libbers."
However, spanking onscreen and in comics started disappearing earlier. I think in part it was due to Dr Spock and his opposition to spanking as part of childrearing, which became prevalent thinking in the early/mid 1960s.
Since spanking is seen as something done to children, and if spanking children is no longer viewed as proper or acceptable, it would of course follow that adult females should not be spanked .
Don't want to get into the debate over parental spanking but I do think the influence of what some call the culture of permissiveness that arose then is partly responsible as to how society view spanking today.
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Re: Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Post by willjohn »

Benjamin Spock never spoke for or against spanking. He always said discipline was up to the parents.

His son Michael has said he was no softie as a parent, nor did either of his sons suicide. Don't believe everything you hear.
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Re: Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Post by butch46163@yahoo.com »

HI CSR!!!! Why is the pc world so offened by seeing an adult woman getting a over the knee spanking in a comic book comic strip or movie :?: Is it sexual or degrading toward women? I remember in the 80`s when people was trying to stop horror movies from being made due to the violence toward females characters and seeing plenty of horror movie back then myself some was indeed pretty violent for their female characters but studios never backed down and kept making scary movies. This is what I felt comic books writers should have did Maybe they think spanking are a thing of the past and moved on to something new that might peek the interest of it young male readers like drawing strongers females with big breasts wearing little or nothing clothing while beating up or shooting male villians.I think in this anything gose world that spanking would fit in and comic writers should use it in their work like having a Hero like Batman giving a spanking to a spoil young woman ala Lindsay Lohan type that think she above the law and can get away with murder while causing trouble for any one around her :D I don`t think many readers would object to seeing that!!! In fact some might agree that she had it coming that it was well deserve :lol: :lol: Do any one think that readers would see this as sexual or degrading toward a woman? Spanking should be use as an art the same as horror writers use bloody killing to tell their story and no one should be offened by that!! Heres another question on this subject. Why did writers and artist such as Dan Decarlo Bill Ward and novelist Ian Fleming who I think was into spankings Judging by seeing plenty of their adult drawing like in Humorama and in Mr. Fleming`s case reading about how he like to spank women never add spanking in their works for mainstream? Yes Mr. Decarlo did have his female Character Veronica spank twice and Betty once He also had Josie spanked even though we didn`t see it but Bill Ward never feature a spanking in Torchy and Ian Fleming never let James Bond spank a female character both bad or good :cry: In Bond case there where plenty of women I would have love to see put over his knees an spanked :lol: Was it because they didn`t want to expose their fetish or was it because studio forbid them??
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Re: Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Post by web-ed »

butch46163@yahoo.com wrote:HI CSR!!!! Why is the pc world so offended by seeing an adult woman getting a over the knee spanking in a comic book comic strip or movie :?: Is it sexual or degrading toward women? I remember in the 80`s when people was trying to stop horror movies from being made due to the violence toward females characters and seeing plenty of horror movie back then myself some was indeed pretty violent for their female characters but studios never backed down and kept making scary movies. This is what I felt comic books writers should have did
Butch,
I think the PC world is offended by adult M/F spanking because they do believe it's degrading to women. Compared to the violent horror movies you mentioned, you'd think getting spanked was pretty mild, but the PC/Feminist movement is all hung up about an alleged "patriarchy" which systematically oppresses women, and probably sees no difference between a loving (and/or deserved) spanking and an outright criminal assault. (Note: under the law, it is assault if you just grab some strange woman off the street and start spanking her, but that's not what we're talking about here.) Also, the Dominant/Submissive aspect of spanking deeply disturbs feminists, for they are in denial about the nature of normal human sexual feelings, which for males are dominant and for women submissive, and in fact they don't much seem to approve of sex at all.

I seem to remember some of the more radical feminist theorists, like Catherine MacKinnon or Andrea Dworkin, arguing that even consensual sex was akin to rape because of the power imbalance between the sexes. I'm not going to waste my time refuting that kind of nonsense here, but the point we need to bear in mind is that these nutty theories were widely accepted in academic circles, and actual codes of conduct were drawn up in some colleges to regulate the students' sexual behavior. In such an environment, it would take a lot of courage for writers and editors to go ahead with spanking scenes, and courage seems to be in short supply in any time and place.

I always hated horror movies made after the 1950's, but I seem to remember Jamie Lee Curtis early in her career being in some of them. I think she struck back against the bad guys (I may be wrong because I never watched these things all the way through), so maybe the studios figured that made it all o.k. Studio executives are not typically very bright, so it can be difficult to fathom their thought processes.

Another factor could be the Comics Code, enacted in 1954. I just read an article in Alter Ego in which it is suggested that the people at the Code's office, who were mainly female, didn't like spankings and demanded they be removed from stories that tried to insert them. The example they gave was the scene in Fantastic Four #28 with the Things and Sue Storm. I think I'm going to have to take this question up in a separate topic or at least a separate entry.

Tanner mentioned the effects of child-spanking becoming less common, and I think that this too was a factor. For as spanking became less a part of a kid's normal, everyday existence, there was less reason for him to see spanking as an expected consequence of bad behavior and therefore less reason for comics writers to plot that way. This would explain why bad girls didn't get spanked by superheroes any more (in the non-romantic, hero spanks villainess scene). Still, there was that Batman/Marcia Monroe spanking in 1966, but it's something of an outlier, even though we're glad to have it :) !

Bill Ward and Torchy: this is indeed something of a mystery. Perhaps for all the spanking art he did, Ward wasn't really into it. Otherwise, it's hard to see how he could have resisted spanking Torchy Todd! Or maybe his editor was dead-set against it, as we know Mort Weisinger was with the idea of a Superman/Lois Lane spanking.

Dan DeCarlo: I don't believe he was into spanking - the few Archie spankings were clearly intended humorously until times had changed to the extent that they might not be seen that way any longer. The MLJ line had a lot of spankings in its early days, even before Archie arrived on the scene. Certainly Archie Publications would have been very sensitive to criticism from the feminist movement as they would have wanted to avoid any controversy winding up in the newspapers.

Ian Fleming: I've never read any of his James Bond novels, but I remember hearing of at least one spanking and probably more in them. Why didn't Hollywood put any spankings into the film versions? I don't think they were interested in protecting Fleming, and since even in the early 60's the films suggested that Bond was sleeping with all these girls it can't have been fear of sexual content alone. Maybe it was the context - if Bond enjoyed spanking the girls, then they would have been too chicken to present that interest honestly, but if it was a straight punishment spanking, I don't know why the studio wouldn't have gone for it at that time.
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Re: Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Post by Tanner »

Been a long time since I read the Bond books, but I do remember a number of spanking threats he made in several of them. One time he told Miss Moneypenny that she gave him anymore lip,or something, she'd get such a spanking she have to do her typing off a block of Dunlopillo-assume was some sort of Brit soft cushion. In another he told a girl who had gotten herself and him in a dangerous jam that when it was over she'd get such a spanking she wouldn't sit for a week. No indication it was carried out though.
In The Spy Who Loved me, a villain threatened the girl who was a main character with a spanking if she did not fix his eggs properly.
As for the movies guess by that time Hollywood had decided that spankings were "out."
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Re: Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Post by butch46163@yahoo.com »

HI WEB-ED TANNER!!!! But do you both think that some of the underground comic or Satire comic strips would use spanking just as they do about anything else in todays world to try and push the envelope? Over on the FX cable channel a cartoon show call Archer has it male hero a spoof of James Bond spank his female lovers with a ping pong paddle during sex although they don`t show it but you do see the paddle when their both in bed :D So I would think that these writers won`t be afraid to have a female character spank just to push the pc world button realilty shows do it all the time so why not comics like Mad or Crack if they are still in bussines do the same! Remember reading how the comic strip The BoomDocks was pull from the newspapers due to it racial slurs but it is now on the Cartoon channel! Remember the young man who wrote and drew that comic saying he was never going to change the way it depict his characters and Granpa still beats his two young grandkids with a belts! Do you think that a mainstream comic strip like Spiderman featuring a spanking to it femalee villianess Serra Carson aka The Big Boss who was trying to kill him would be remove from the newspapers? Or how about him giving his wife Mary Jane Watson a playful spanking over his knees for endangering her life would this be offensive?Being a spanko I alway wanted to see scenes like that in comic books or strips epsecaily when a male hero was pitted up against a female villianess just like in some of those Pulp Fiction Magazines that shows on it covers tough femme fatales or bad girls who you would think get their comeuppance via an over the knee spanking from the male hero :lol: To me that would be justice!! The way it should be!!
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Re: Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Post by web-ed »

butch46163@yahoo.com wrote: Do you think that a mainstream comic strip like Spiderman featuring a spanking to it female villainess Serra Carson aka The Big Boss who was trying to kill him would be remove from the newspapers? Or how about him giving his wife Mary Jane Watson a playful spanking over his knees for endangering her life would this be offensive? Being a spanko I alway wanted to see scenes like that in comic books or strips especially when a male hero was pitted up against a female villainess just like in some of those Pulp Fiction Magazines that shows on it covers tough femme fatales or bad girls who you would think get their comeuppance via an over the knee spanking from the male hero :lol: To me that would be justice!! The way it should be!!
I'd love to see either of these two kinds of scenes also, but I don't expect it will happen anytime soon in mainstream comics. The companies just don't have the guts to take the risk of being criticized. Certainly Spider-Man would be justified in spanking The Big Boss, but the noisy feminist crowd would holler "sexist!" and Marvel, like most large corporations, is just too chicken to defend itself from any sort of criticism, therefore they will take the easy way out and avoid controversy like the plague. Remember what happened after the Thing spanked Moondragon for her arrogance in 1980? At least some readers whined about "sexism" and the best the editors could offer was, "Ben would have done the same thing with a male character" - ugh! After that, there were no M/F spankings at Marvel as far as I know (Lunatik/Hellcat and Spanker/Beverly had taken place earlier).

A Spidey/Mary Jane spanking would be great fun, but even though of a different type than the good guy spanks bad girl scene, I don't think we're going to see it. If portrayed as anything less than consensual (what we spankos would call loving discipline), we'd hear all the same protests: "sexist", "promotes violence against women" etc. If portrayed as loving foreplay between characters who are, after all, husband and wife, it might be considered unwholesome for children. Still, given the amount of sex all over the place in popular media, this kind of scene is probably more likely than the first.

There is a rebellion going on right now against political correctness, but that battle is by no means won, and given that popular media are on the trailing edge rather than the leading edge of culture it will probably be some time before popular media are safe for honest M/F spankings again. One sign that we are getting to that point would be the reappearance of spanking in more serious art forms, but serious novels were never known for having lots of spankings, and movies are more pop art than serious art, so this approach doesn't seem all that promising as a pop culture prognosticator. "Bottom" line: we'll just have to wait and see.
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Re: Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Post by butch46163@yahoo.com »

Hi WEB-ED CSR!! I was just wondering the other day about spanking in the media comic books comic strips and movies and thought do writers and artists get turn on when drawing or filming a spanking scene and that was the reason they added it in there or was it the way they wanted to punish the female villianess? Meaning take Lee Falk`s The Phantom did Mr. Falk had his character spank all those women as a punishment for their bad behavior or was it to satified his own spanking fetish.Being a spanko I remember drawing plenty of picture where girls and women was spanked for all kind of crimes not because they needed it it was a way to get turn on so I made a plot where the woman when caught was punish with a spanking :lol: So this had me thinking do writers and artists especially back in the olden days did the same thing? :D Just like today when most movies now show girl on girl action kissing :lol:
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Re: Are Spanking Scenes a Personal Turn-On for Comics Creato

Post by web-ed »

Well, Butch, I think this is one of the great unanswered questions we're faced with. I'll put aside the question for now as it pertains to movies, although I can think of one or two examples where the idea of spanking was presented with so much care and attention you have to believe the writer or director must have been into it. Dan Rivera knows more about cinema spanking than pretty much anyone, so perhaps he'll comment on this question.

With comics, there are several creators who did spanking scenes so well (and so often) that the suspicion naturally arises that they were true spankos. You mentioned Lee Falk, who did those great spanking scenes in The Phantom and Mandrake. A thorough discussion would require a longer article than I'm up to right now (I just spent the last couple of hours on a forthcoming "Spanking and the Comics Code" article), but here is a brief summary of the creators that immediately come to mind as possible spankos.

I should also mention that sometime in the future we will have to define what we mean by "spanko" since there are men who certainly take some pleasure in spanking a woman without being as strongly into it as we here on this board are. Perhaps some of these creators fall into that category.
  1. Zack Mosley - I just recently raised this possibility again when I published his tenth spanking in CSR. Dan has long maintained that Mosley must have been one of us, and putting 10 spankings in Smilin' Jack is pretty strong evidence that he's right.
  2. Lee Falk - nobody wrote the "comeuppance" spanking, delivered to the deserving rear of the spoiled and haughty female, better than Falk. At the very least, he understood the psychological implications of spanking - that it is, at "bottom", a kind of humiliation which could be understood as punishment, or humbling the arrogant, or both. And he understood the appeal this has for both the dominant male and the submissive female. Was he a true spanko or just a good psychologist, as the best writers are?
  3. Roy Crane - he also clearly understood the dominant/submissive M/F dynamic that is part and parcel of spanking. But was he a spanko?
  4. Jerry Siegel - the co-creator of Superman, Siegel did 6 M/F spankings in the Superman strip, and probably would have done some in the Superman Family titles as well if editor Mort Weisinger would have allowed it. Siegel's scenes are reminiscent of Falk's, and he may just have been a man who enjoyed seeing a deserving female get her comeuppance rather than a true spanko.
  5. Jack Sparling - he did a couple of spanking scenes I've posted in Comics Gallery 2 (Mr. Rumbles and Honor Eden). This is far fewer than Mosley, Falk, or Siegel, and I've only recently come around to placing him in the "probable spanko" category. Certainly somebody connected with the old Sick magazine was a spanko, and Sparling was on its staff at the time they published a gratuitous spanking panel. I'm still trying to get hold of an issue I had more than 30 years ago which could provide definite proof. But Sick had low circulation, making back issues hard to come by.
  6. The "Aces" Artist - I've been promising to reveal his identity for a couple of years now, but because some of my old comics collection is presently unaccounted for, I haven't been able to find the samples of his work I needed. He didn't actually do any spanking scenes in comics that I know of even though he was one of the field's best-known artists, but the unsigned drawings he did for several spanking publications leaves no doubt he was a true spanko. Maybe I'll get around to this later in the year - if I can find those old comic books.
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Re: Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Post by butch46163@yahoo.com »

Hi WEB-ED CSR!! Maybe some of those comic books artist and writers weren`t into spanking but used it as a way to deal with headstrong female character instead of punching them or in cases such as spoild Queens or princesses taking them down a peg! But what about artist like Dan Decarlo or Bill Ward do you think they drew spanking as a turn on? I think these two was into spanking by just looking at their drawing large shaply bottoms of their females and many fantasies Boss spank Secretary Doctors Nurses ect that was made to be humor but also a turn on same could be said about Bill Wenzel and Kirk Stiles who drew plenty of spankings. Do you think that When Decarlo and Ward drew mainstream comics such as Archie and Torchy they try to restrain themselves for having their female characters spanked so that it wouldn`t be seen as though they was doing this for their own pleasure?
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Were Ward, DeCarlo, etc. Into Spanking Themselves?

Post by web-ed »

This subject came up over on the "Spanking in Media" forum (see Clues That Tell Us an Artist Might Be Into Spanking). I don't want to repeat here what I wrote over there, so I'll just give a quick summary of my thoughts on the Humorama "Big Five" plus one.
  • Bill Ward - though I'm sure he drew more spanking cartoons than anyone else from his generation (perhaps Dave Wolfe, Nik Zula, or our own Dan Rivera have caught up to him or will do so since they're all still active), I'm not convinced he was a true spanko - he was simply too boob-crazy, although I doubt he had any objection to spanking in principle or practice.

    I don't think the reason there are no Torchy spankings and relatively few from Archie is that he and Dan DeCarlo were covering up their inclinations; these comics were done script-first, which means it would have been difficult for the artist to insert a spanking the writer hadn't called for and the editor hadn't approved, except perhaps for a "melee" spanking in the middle of a busy and crowded panel.
  • Bill Wenzel - the putative inventor of the Humorama "spanker," Wenzel's sometimes awkward positioning and use of the wrong hand for spanking make it unlikely he was into the scene. I think he was simply a good gag man who recognized the comedic potential for spankings and thought they would freshen up the mostly tired old gags that cartoonists had been doing for years.
  • Kirk Stiles - His output over the years was enormous, but while I've seen some of his early work from the 30's, the only "spankers" he did as far as I know were for Humorama after Bill Wenzel started the trend. And like Wenzel, his positioning is sometimes very awkward, so it's hard to believe he could have been a spanko. He did use the widest variety of spanking positions among these six artists, whatever that might indicate.
  • Dan DeCarlo - his work had a nudge-nudge, wink-wink, one-guy-to-another quality to it, for time and again the spankee gets taken OTK on a flimsy pretext simply because the spanker secretly wants to smack her shapely bottom. This proves DeCarlo well understood the erotic pleasure a man can take in spanking a woman, and that he knew how to craft a gag around this fact, but it doesn't prove he was a true spanko himself. Probably he would have enjoyed taking a young woman OTK if he had had the opportunity (I don't know if he ever did).
  • Homer Provence - almost unique among the six in routinely presenting spanking as a consensual activity (rarely Stiles did this also). I think Homer's view of spanking was to see it as foreplay between lovers, so he might very well have done it occasionally himself. But that wouldn't make him a dedicated spanko like we here are.
  • George Morrice - if I had known how many "spankers" he did when I first coined the term "The Big Five", I probably would have made it "The Big Six". All the spankings he drew (including one caning!) came after Wenzel's pioneering example, and I believe he was simply trying to please editor Abe Goodman. Still, Morrice could be considered a "possible".
Last edited by web-ed on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Replace "smuttiest" with a longer description of DeCarlo's work.
-- Web-Ed
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Re: Why Spanking Should Not Have Been Stopped in Comics

Post by daneldorado »

.
Good essay, Web-ed... and yes, I did enjoy its predecessor, "Clues That Tell Us...." Very scholarly, while at the same time coming down firmly in favor of spanking cartoons.

But wow, I wish you had not used the word "smutty" to describe Dan DeCarlo! The online Thesaurus tells us that "smutty" means obscene or vulgar. I never think of DeCarlo that way. His lines are clean, his jokes are clean, and I don't think I've ever seen a DeCarlo toon that debases women, as some of Ward's surely did. DeCarlo's spankers all seem to be spanking because it is fun, and for no real other reason. I realize that's essentially what you said, but I fail to see how that makes his cartoons "smutty."

DeCarlo's spanking toons always make me want to "BE" the guy he depicts, spanking the girl. There is no other artist I have viewed, who makes me feel that way. When "Mr. Woodrod" spanks the girl who's landed a job as his maid, it's pretty clear that he is not mean-spirited, he just likes spanking pretty girls. Even the office executive who spanks the girl who wandered into the wrong office after lunch, is not being malicious. He just saw an opportunity to spank a pretty girl, and took it.

Of course something like that could never happen in real life, and Mr. DeCarlo knows it. He simply takes our personal fantasies and puts them to work on his drawing board. Maybe this is why you wrote: "Probably he would have enjoyed taking a young woman OTK if he had had the opportunity...."

Personally, that thought sings to me. Yes, I was a spanker in my younger days. In my twenties I dated several girls, and always looked for the opportunity to spank their pretty bottoms. Whenever I found a willing candidate, you bet your life I took the initiative and whaled away! In a friendly way, of course.

Anyway, Web-ed, good essay.

Cheers,
Dan
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Time for a Rewrite

Post by web-ed »

I thought about it, Dan, and you're right - I shouldn't have used the word "smutty" to describe DeCarlo's work. I'm going to have to go back and change it now, although I'm still having trouble finding the right adjective - I don't think there is one word for the quality I'm trying to describe. Let this be a lesson to all young writers: if you can't find the right word, accept no substitutes - just keep looking, or rewrite the phrase entirely. Also, there are times when you have to ignore the normal writer's discipline that tells you to keep going no matter what, which is the only way you can produce a decent daily page total, and set aside the work for a time. As tired as I was when I wrote that, I shouldn't have been allowed near a word processor!
-- Web-Ed
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