An Alternate Proposal

[overbarrel49]

O.K. - we've come in for a closer shot of the pair as the lecture continues, which is fine as we needed a longer shot last time when it looked like Natalie was about to get taken over Mark's knee. I don't think Natalie's body language here could be improved upon, as you can see how difficult it is for her to pull her panties down (nice guy that I am, I often spare my spankee this difficulty by taking down her panties myself ).

hi web-ed,

i liked your comment about Natalie's body language . this shot was designed to show her embarrassment at having to pull her panties down in front of him as well as her general humiliation and disbelief at the flood of emotions she's feeling right now . the fact that she's still holding on to her panties and has to be told that to let go of them does indeed indicate how difficult this is for her . i too am a nice guy and often lower my spankee's panties for her too . in this particular situation i felt like having her do it herself would be more effective.

Now as to Natalie's expression, I can't point out any particular problem, but something about her face seems very slightly off. Since I can't quite nail it down, it can't be a big deal - perhaps it's that the shape of her mouth as she frowns is almost too perfect geometrically, or a slight angle of the eyes or eyebrows.

i have gone back and studied her expression again but i guess i don't see what you have noticed. i thought the expression went well with her pose and that the 2 together pretty much told the story of what is going on here. as a matter of fact, i kind of thought this pic could have stood by itself, without any dialog. if you do manage to nail it down, i'd appreciate it if you'd pass it along to me. that's the kind of comments that are helpful and i usually try to save that information for future reference when doing other pics.

There is still some question as to what type of spanking this is going to be, but the extended lecture is characteristic of a disciplinary session (and incidentally, a good pre-spanking lecture is strongly desired by some spankees). I think you have in mind more of an "establishment" spanking in which the male establishes his dominance over the female since Natalie hasn't done anything "wrong", although I could point to her stubborn refusal to explain her behavior to Mark as a kind of spankable offense. I'm inclined to think the ambiguity here is the result of the inherent D/S element within a disciplinary context, which of course is also why so many women find that even a hint of discipline increases the excitement of being spanked.

your comment about him establishing his dominance is exactly what i had in mind here. that's one reason he is going with so much ritual and such a long lecture. it is still a punishment spanking though because Mark considers her stubborn refusal to explain her behavior, and his resulting frustration, as a perfectly valid reason for a spanking. in fact, it's a pet peeve of his. i know that because i had a former girl friend who did this kind of crap to me and it's one of MY pet peeves . i thought your analysis of all this was interesting.............and more in depth than what i had thought about. you have a way of analyzing these situations and then condensing the results into just a few words.............which is a talent i lack. i found your comments about the pre spanking lecture being desired by some spankees and discipline increasing the excitement to be particularly interesting since i hadn't consciously considered any of this but these elements will be showing up at various points as we go along in the story . i have 4 pics done that have yet to be posted and have thought much farther ahead than that and the elements you mention here are already in the works. with a bit of luck, hopefully all this will coalesce and become less ambiguous at the toon progresses. also, hopefully, you'll continue to enjoy it . thanks, phil

[overbarrel49]

Natalie seems to find Mark's lecture to be a bit unnerving

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hi everyone,

Mark is still laying down the law to Natalie.............and taking full advantage of the situation . Natalie, on the other hand seems to be getting a little frantic do to her apprehension.............and "other" sensations . whether he knows it or not, Mark's taking full advantage of that too . i hope you enjoy the new pic. thanks, phil

[hugob00m]

Ahhhh! We, the audience finally get a good look at... we might say... the TARGET AREA! The part of Natalie that is soon to be the center of attention! Mark continues to lecture her, but she seems distracted by the thought of how exposed she is! Is anyone going to see her? Yes! The audience! I love the way this story is going, and you have become the new master of suspense for your fans at C.S.R.

[overbarrel49]

Ahhhh! We, the audience finally get a good look at... we might say... the TARGET AREA! The part of Natalie that is soon to be the center of attention! Mark continues to lecture her, but she seems distracted by the thought of how exposed she is! Is anyone going to see her? Yes! The audience! I love the way this story is going, and you have become the new master of suspense for your fans at C.S.R.

hi Boom,

yes, it's been a long road so far but we are indeed getting a look at that "center of attention" and we'll be seeing more and more of it as we go along . i don't think Natalie is aware of our viewing audience but she does seem to have some concerns about someone "becoming" an audience . i'm glad you're enjoying the story . hopefully it will still have a few surprises as we go along . thanks, phil

[web-ed]

Like b00m, I was waiting for the moment when we got our first glimpse of the "target area" and am not disappointed now that it's arrived. That's one fine-looking fanny! I really feel like we're standing right there in the room (a tribute to the art in this panel) and I'd like to think we're somehow contributing to Natalie's embarrassment. Speaking of which, her embarrassment is what Natalie is most aware of, because in women that is the strongest emotion at a time like that. But you have succeeded in conveying that she's also a little aroused by the situation even though she doesn't realize it, much less understand the reason for it. I'm sure you'll have her self-understanding increase as the session progresses. I'm betting that we'll also find out why she's been putting Mark off all this time.

[overbarrel49]

Like b00m, I was waiting for the moment when we got our first glimpse of the "target area" and am not disappointed now that it's arrived. That's one fine-looking fanny!

hi web-ed,

i'm glad you enjoyed the view . i know it's been a while coming but i thought it was necessary in order to adequately tell the story.......and hopefully it was worth the wait .

I really feel like we're standing right there in the room (a tribute to the art in this panel) and I'd like to think we're somehow contributing to Natalie's embarrassment.

i thought this was a very interesting comment and, i have to admit, not something i had thought about. i went back and took another look at it after reading your comment and it does look like it might be from the vantage point of an onlooker...........now all i have to do is figure out how to do it again . this camera angle does allow us to get "up close and personal" so perhaps that's what's causing that effect. anyway, i appreciate the compliment . one of the great things about such pics is that it is always in the "eye" of the viewer so you're free to contribute to Natalie's embarrassment .

Speaking of which, her embarrassment is what Natalie is most aware of, because in women that is the strongest emotion at a time like that. B

i agree with you here and from the comments i've gotten so do at least some of the spankees i have heard from who have basically mentioned that they feel the embarrassment and submission more than anything at this point .

But you have succeeded in conveying that she's also a little aroused by the situation even though she doesn't realize it, much less understand the reason for it. I'm sure you'll have her self-understanding increase as the session progresses. I'm betting that we'll also find out why she's been putting Mark off all this time.

this is also something that my spankee friends have mentioned although, all but one of them had to be prompted before they mentioned it. i was pleased with your comment though . i did a lot of work to get the dialog just right and actually re did it more than once. it turned out to be difficult to indicate that she was getting sexually excited but wasn't sure what was going on or at least was having trouble accepting it. thanks for your comments. phil

[overbarrel49]

Natalie forgets to call Mark Sir!

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hi everyone,

UH-OH! the time has come!..........and that's not Natalie's only problem . i hope you enjoy the new pic. phil

[daneldorado]

Phil, you have done a magnificent job of "setting the scene." You did say, in the beginning of this story, that we would not see any real spanking until panel no.10. Now we are at no. 9, so I guess all your fans are licking their lips in anticipation of the NEXT PANEL!

One little thing bothers me, and because you know me and have read many of my posts, I'm pretty sure you know what that is. In your panel no. 008, we read Mark saying to Natalie:

"...consider just how embarrassed you'll be... when you're over my lap... and you really ARE...exposed!"

Well, that's a red flag. Natalie is already standing there, buck naked except for her top, and we can see everything. So when you add that when she's over his knee she will be "really" exposed, I'm pretty sure that means it will be "OB-GYN" time. Web-ed has often mentioned my aversion to female "exposure," so if your story proceeds as I suspect it will, I'll probably skip it.

No offense intended Phil, as you know I admire your drawing style and I will testify that you have gotten much better with it over time. Still can't beat your classic, "One Good Turn," which I revisit often. There was plenty of good spanking action in that one, and not one single example of "exposure."

Guess I'll see you on the other side.

Cheers,
Dan

[web-ed]

Well, the moment of truth is at hand - and I do mean "at hand" - for Natalie! It's probably just as well as I don't think the poor girl could take too much more waiting. Our vantage point this time makes us aware, as Natalie is, of how far her upper body will have to be lowered to raise up her hips into spanking position. I was especially pleased that Natalie has already earned penalty swats with the paddle before her spanking has even begun!

I know Dan is worried about "exposure" as I call it, but in this panel Natalie's groin area is obscured by the placement of Mark's leg, and it's certainly possible that depending on the angles you choose for the spanking itself there won't be any exposure. To me, it doesn't much matter as I only dislike exposure when it's obviously gratuitous and also done in a vulgar way, and I know that won't be the case here.

[daneldorado]

.
Web-ed wrote:


To me, it doesn't much matter as I only dislike exposure when it's obviously gratuitous and also done in a vulgar way,


Exactly.


Cheers,
Dan

[willjohn]

Does this bloke ever shut up? When does he start smacking her arse and putting her out of her misery?

[overbarrel49]

Phil, you have done a magnificent job of "setting the scene." You did say, in the beginning of this story, that we would not see any real spanking until panel no.10. Now we are at no. 9, so I guess all your fans are licking their lips in anticipation of the NEXT PANEL!

hi Dan,

I'm glad you've enjoyed the "set up" i won't always take this much time with it but thought it was a good idea in this case and it's an area that is overlooked in much spanking art even though it's an important part of the spanking process.

One little thing bothers me, and because you know me and have read many of my posts, I'm pretty sure you know what that is. In your panel no. 008, we read Mark saying to Natalie:

"...consider just how embarrassed you'll be... when you're over my lap... and you really ARE...exposed!"

Well, that's a red flag. Natalie is already standing there, buck naked except for her top, and we can see everything. So when you add that when she's over his knee she will be "really" exposed, I'm pretty sure that means it will be "OB-GYN" time. Web-ed has often mentioned my aversion to female "exposure," so if your story proceeds as I suspect it will, I'll probably skip it.

i do indeed know your preferences in this matter and to tell you the truth, i was wondering how you'd react to pic #7 i posted a couple weeks ago where Natalie is lowering her panties. i don't think you commented on that one so i'm assuming you were ok with the frontal nudity which i showed because i thought it was necessary in order to depict her humiliation. in this particular case, i think maybe you've read something in to the dialog that i hadn't intended. Mark's comment that you quoted was just intended as further embarrassment for Natalie and to give her something else to think about......not that she needed anything else to think about. i don't have any plans to deliberately cause any exposure to occur during this toon. that's not to say that it might not happen anyway. as you know, i have no problem with some exposure and will allow it if the camera angle and position of Natalie that i think best depicts the scene causes some i want. there also might be scenarios, in some toons, in which i think some exposure would be necessary but i don't have any current plans for that in this toon.

No offense intended Phil, as you know I admire your drawing style and I will testify that you have gotten much better with it over time. Still can't beat your classic, "One Good Turn," which I revisit often. There was plenty of good spanking action in that one, and not one single example of "exposure."

Guess I'll see you on the other side.

Cheers,
Dan

none taken. we all have different tastes in spanking art and no 2 people can overlap all the time. one of these days i may have to revisit Jennifer and Sara Ann to see if i can repeat my success . thanks, phil

[overbarrel49]

Well, the moment of truth is at hand - and I do mean "at hand" - for Natalie! It's probably just as well as I don't think the poor girl could take too much more waiting. Our vantage point this time makes us aware, as Natalie is, of how far her upper body will have to be lowered to raise up her hips into spanking position. I was especially pleased that Natalie has already earned penalty swats with the paddle before her spanking has even begun!

hi web-ed,

well, i did stretch the "preliminaries" out pretty far in this one and i'm sure everyone will be quite ready for the spanking to begin. i have it on good authority that girls waiting for a spanking to start really do have all these feelings running around in their minds........and in the pits of their stomachs . i personally liked this camera angle where Natalie is looking at that far away lap that she'll be over i a few seconds . i liked your comment about the paddle swats too . not only something else for her to dread but perhaps also a preview of coming attractions .

I know Dan is worried about "exposure" as I call it, but in this panel Natalie's groin area is obscured by the placement of Mark's leg, and it's certainly possible that depending on the angles you choose for the spanking itself there won't be any exposure. To me, it doesn't much matter as I only dislike exposure when it's obviously gratuitous and also done in a vulgar way, and I know that won't be the case here.

i covered some of this in my reply to Dan and as you already know, i will allow or use exposure depending on the situation, i personally have no problem with it and i have some viewers who request such shots. even when i do them, i like them to be as tasteful as possible and dislike the vulgar shots you mention. after all, that's NOT supposed to be the center of attention. thanks, phil

[overbarrel49]

Does this bloke ever shut up? When does he start smacking her arse and putting her out of her misery?

hi Willjohn,

she will be OTK in the next pic. phil

[daneldorado]

.
Overbarrel wrote:

i do indeed know your preferences in this matter and to tell you the truth, i was wondering how you'd react to pic #7 i posted a couple weeks ago where Natalie is lowering her panties. i don't think you commented on that one so i'm assuming you were ok with the frontal nudity which i showed because i thought it was necessary in order to depict her humiliation.

Yes, I saw your panel no. 7, but I didn't think to complain about the nudity because it is not unlike many Renaissance nudes we have seen. There are many such paintings that do depict full-frontal, but not in a salacious way. That era also produced several male nudes, but never do they show an erect penis. That would be crossing the line. In a similar way, female nudity was accepted as long as it was not presented in a lewd way, as it would certainly do if the lady's legs were spread apart, her organs fully on display, and covered with pubic hair.

That said, I do feel like echoing one of your fans, willjohn, who presented his case in this way:

"Does this bloke ever shut up? When does he start smacking her arse and putting her out of her misery?"

Like Web-ed and others, I do appreciate that you took the time, with this one story, to provide a lot of "foreplay." But I think it's time to show us some action.

Cheers,
Dan

[overbarrel49]

last chance for Natalie to think it over

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hi everyone,

Natalie seems to be a bit overwhelmed and a little distressed as Mark explains exactly how things are gonna be . i hope you all enjoy the new pic. phil

[daneldorado]

Yes Phil, we DO appreciate your new picture, in which we finally get to see Natalie in a proper spanking position, i.e., over the knees of her lover, Mark.

The positioning is perfect, one of the best-positioned OTKs I've ever seen. But I see that you've decided to emulate your friend and ours, hugo b00m. As you know, b00m routinely delivers spank pics in his OTKatie stories where the sheer volume of words (dialogue balloons) threaten to crowd the spanking picture clean off the page! Your newest panel seems to be an "homage" to that style of drawing.

Phil... your latest picture is lovely; as I say, it is one of the best positioned toons I've ever seen. Maybe you would like to correct a misspelled word? I think "dererve" should probably be "deserve."

Cheers,
Dan

[overbarrel49]

Yes Phil, we DO appreciate your new picture, in which we finally get to see Natalie in a proper spanking position, i.e., over the knees of her lover, Mark.

The positioning is perfect, one of the best-positioned OTKs I've ever seen.

hi Dan,

i'm glad you enjoyed the view in this pic . i know it's been a long time coming but i personally thought the trip to get here was worth the wait. thanks for the compliment on the OTK position. i always try to get these as good as i can and it's nice to know you think i succeeded so well on this one. as you know, i usually like to have the spankee in a dress but that wouldn't work in this case. it's more difficult to get that OTK position just right without the dress because it covers much of the area of contact between the spanker and the spankee. that fact made your comment even more pleasing for me to hear .

But I see that you've decided to emulate your friend and ours, hugo b00m. As you know, b00m routinely delivers spank pics in his OTKatie stories where the sheer volume of words (dialogue balloons) threaten to crowd the spanking picture clean off the page! Your newest panel seems to be an "homage" to that style of drawing.

yeah, there are definitely too many words on the pic.................or at least more than i like to use. i really don't like to have the dialog crowding the picture but i was trying to show Natalie's rising panic and inability to think and this is the way it turned out. i did give this one, and most of the others i've posted so far in this toon, a lot of thought. i changed the original dialog and re changed it and there was still too many words but i decided to leave it this way in the interest of trying to depict her feelings in this matter................sigh. you are not the only one to mention this. Dave Wolfe, who is a close friend and an artist that i highly respect, made pretty much the same comment about one of the earlier pics in this toon and i have to say that i agree with both of you on this. i was just unable to avoid it. you'll be happy to know that this will be coming to an end now that the spanking is starting since Natalie will have less time to think about all this since she will have "more immediate" concerns .

Phil... your latest picture is lovely; as I say, it is one of the best positioned toons I've ever seen. Maybe you would like to correct a misspelled word? I think "dererve" should probably be "deserve."

Cheers,

shit! as i said, i've been over and over the dialog in these pics and i still missed a typo . thanks for your comments and i'm glad you enjoyed the pic . phil

[web-ed]

Well, there may be a lot of words in this panel, but the most important thing is the OTK positioning, which is great! I'm really enjoying looking at it about as much as Mark is enjoying the prospect of smacking that gorgeous bare bottom of Natalie's - satisfaction at last! .

Now as to the relative verbosity: it can be very difficult to get the balance right, with just enough words in a panel and not too many, even for those familiar with the medium and who are paying close attention to this problem (as they should be). Now when you're an artist-writer, as you are, you may seemingly have less of an excuse as you almost certainly have the art completed before lettering the dialogue, although in theory you could write the thing first. Even that's no guarantee: I had a good deal of trouble with my first comics script because of course since I can't draw the book had to be done script-first, and anyway I think that's the right way to do it. Despite being fully aware of the dangers of overwriting, there was just a little too much dialogue to comfortably fit in many of the panels, and I was the one laying them out (that is, I described the panel breakdowns as part of the script although I didn't produce actual page roughs) so I really had no one to blame but myself.

I wouldn't worry about it too much here, though: once the spanking really gets going it simply won't matter how many words (or panels) it took to get there.

[overbarrel49]

Well, there may be a lot of words in this panel, but the most important thing is the OTK positioning, which is great! I'm really enjoying looking at it about as much as Mark is enjoying the prospect of smacking that gorgeous bare bottom of Natalie's - satisfaction at last! .

hi web-ed,

yep! Mark will INDEED be having some satisfaction at last . i'm glad you enjoyed the view in this one and thanks for the compliment on the OTK positioning as i was telling Dan, with Poser, it is more difficult without that dress to hide any problems.

Now as to the relative verbosity: it can be very difficult to get the balance right, with just enough words in a panel and not too many, even for those familiar with the medium and who are paying close attention to this problem (as they should be). Now when you're an artist-writer, as you are, you may seemingly have less of an excuse as you almost certainly have the art completed before lettering the dialogue, although in theory you could write the thing first. Even that's no guarantee: I had a good deal of trouble with my first comics script because of course since I can't draw the book had to be done script-first, and anyway I think that's the right way to do it. Despite being fully aware of the dangers of overwriting, there was just a little too much dialogue to comfortably fit in many of the panels, and I was the one laying them out (that is, I described the panel breakdowns as part of the script although I didn't produce actual page roughs) so I really had no one to blame but myself.

i think you hit the nail right on the head with your term "artist-writer" for what i do. while i do spend a lot of time on the pics themselves, my toons are always trying to tell a story and the stories often require me to use more words than i would like. either that or do twice as many pics and i don't think anyone wants that..........especially in a toon like this one where our naughty spankee isn't even OTK until panel 10. i do have the pics done before i start trying to add words to them although i usually do give it all some thought as i am posing the pics. that's especially true if it's a pic where i want to be close to the action rather than having the camera farther back to show the whole scene. i have to have it far enough back to allow room for the words i'm thinking about. in a very few cases i know exactly what i want to say beforehand but most of the time the words aren't finalized until i am actually adding them to the pic. i spend a lot of time thinking and adjusting as i am adding them to the pic. when i start a toon, i usually have a pretty good idea of how the story is going to go but i never write it all out before starting. much of that comes because i have a tendency to change things as i go along and many of those changes come about because of comments made by viewers along the way. just about every toon gets some changes because a viewer makes a comment and their comment gives me an idea that is better than my original plan. i guess the best example is my toon "One Good Turn" which Dan is fond of commenting on. Sara Ann was not in the original plan for the toon but when Jennifer wrote and told me that her mom was just a naughty as she was and needed a good spanking too, i changed the original plan. in the current toon, it was a comment from one of the male viewers that caused me to have Natalie take her own panties down. you're right! it IS hard to balance. i spend a lot of time thinking about it because i know i tend to be wordy. sometimes i succeed better than others.

I wouldn't worry about it too much here, though: once the spanking really gets going it simply won't matter how many words (or panels) it took to get there.

thanks . btw, once the spanking really gets going, Natalie won't be doing so much thinking..................except about what's happening to her bottom end . phil