Stan Lee, 1922 - 2018

Spankings involving superheroes and superheroines, non-superhero comic-book stuff, comic strips, jungle girls, Lara Croft, Vampirella, Elvira, etc. Chross' board already has an excellent thread on this, but we love this subject so much we figure it deserves its own forum here anyway.
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web-ed
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Stan Lee, 1922 - 2018

Post by web-ed »

Longtime Marvel writer, editor and publisher Stan Lee passed away yesterday at the age of 95. :cry:

Why mention it here at CSR? Primarily because anyone interested in Timely/Marvel comic books during the period he was active as a writer/editor (from 1939 to 1973, with some time off for service in the U.S. Army during World War II) would have encountered his influence. Lee was one of the giants in comics history, and comics are a large part of what we do here at CSR.

Many of the important Timely (Marvel) characters of the 40's were created by other talents - Captain America by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby, the Human Torch by Carl Burgos, and the Sub-Mariner by Bill Everett - but Lee was a visionary editor who definitely left his stamp on the books, and when the Golden Age ended and Marvel was hanging by a thread (beginning c. 1957), Lee co-created (primarily with Don Heck, Steve Ditko, and most of all Jack Kirby) the super-heroes who were to make Marvel rich and famous: The Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, the Hulk, The Avengers, Daredevil, The X-Men, Iron Man, Nick Fury Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., etc. How he managed to script all those titles each month while doing editorial work as well is beyond me.

As Kirby neared the end of his life and Marvel refused to give him his original art back, there was a decided tendency among critics sympathetic to him to downplay Lee's contribution, as if without Kirby all he could have produced was How-To-Avoid-VD comics for the Army (see The Comics Journal during those years). But this was unfair: although by then Lee was a corporate man, it was hardly his fault the comics industry was always a ghetto with rotten business practices, nor did it diminish his contributions to the form as a writer/editor. As an editor he imposed his views of good storytelling and attention-grabbing covers on the staff; as a writer his main innovation was to integrate melodramatic sub-plots into main plots, producing more character-oriented stories (as opposed to simply whumping the bejeezus out of Nazi villains) and since he was also the editor he was able to demand this innovation be accepted, whereas other writers were completely at the mercy of their editors.

Before going further into the question of his writing, what about his spanking? Ten years ago I didn't think Lee had done too many, although of course the record was incomplete. But since then it's become apparent that he (or Kirby) put that one spanking of Sue Storm into Fantastic Four only to have it censored by the Comics Code, and further investigation has caused me to reverse my opinion about Venus #2 - I am now certain it was a Stan Lee script because I have discovered a very similar spanking script that was definitely written by Lee. (I'm still trying to find a decent copy of this book to scan). [Later found one in 2019]. At the moment, I credit Lee with 6 spankings, but he must have done many more, most of which I hope to find someday even if I can't attribute them to him. Because none of the old Timely or Marvel scripts still exist, the exact number of Stan Lee spankings will never be known even if they're all discovered.

For me his best work was on The Amazing Spider-Man, say particularly from late in the Ditko era (say from issue #30) through the best of the John Romita Sr. years (say until around issue #80). An interesting example will give some idea of how Lee's mind worked on constructing good plots - one that may have helped cause Ditko to quit ASM, as a matter of fact.

Lee and Ditko had created a new super-villain for Spider-Man, The Green Goblin. He made several appearances but was never shown without his mask, and the team hoped that readers would enjoy speculating about his real identity. Even they didn't know at the time because they hadn't decided who he was - and that led to a major problem.

According to Lee (the story has been disputed), Ditko wanted the Goblin to be someone nobody had ever heard of as a naturalistic element - the way real life works. In fact the two had already pulled that trick once with The Crime-Master, who wound up being a hood known to the police but completely unknown to Spider-Man. Lee's response was that "In real life, there's nobody called the Green Goblin!" Lee wanted the Goblin to be Norman Osborn, and since he was the editor, when the Goblin's identity was finally revealed, by golly, he was Norman Osborn :lol: !

Image
Cover from The Amazing Spider-Man #39 (August 1966). The Green Goblin, having found out Spider-Man's real identity, is soon to have his own revealed as well. Art by John Romita Sr. © Marvel Characters Inc.

The basic problem with naturalism - Ditko's alleged approach here - is that it makes for boring and not-very-significant fiction. Lee was right - bringing in the father of Peter Parker's roommate was far more interesting than having the Goblin be someone the readers had never met. Their creative relationship became strained after that, and Ditko soon left the book.

R.I.P. Stan - you were one of the great ones. :(
Last edited by web-ed on Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: update info; change punctuation marks
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Sweetspot
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Re: Stan Lee, 1922 - 2018

Post by Sweetspot »

web-ed wrote:Longtime Marvel writer, editor and publisher Stan Lee passed away yesterday at the age of 95.
A fitting tribute. If I had the power to create a Mount Rushmore of the select few people who have had the greatest impact on North American pop culture as it stands RIGHT NOW I would certainly place Stan Lee's image on that monument.
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overbarrel49
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Re: Stan Lee, 1922 - 2018

Post by overbarrel49 »

Hi Web-ed,

Thanks for the info on Stan Lee. It was most informative and most interesting. Phil
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